Who is a Guru in Hinduism ?

Discussion in 'Spiritual Gurus' started by Speechless world, Dec 27, 2015.

  1. Speechless world

    Speechless world New Member

    Any one who can give us the light of knowledge on any subject, who can remove the darkness of ignorance, he is our Guru on that subject. For eg: we ask the way from someone on the road, and he shows us the way, then that guide becomes our guru, whether we consider him a guru or not. We dont need to form a bond with him.

    At the time of marriage, the Brahmin ties the bonds between the bride and the groom, and this bond remains for the lifetime. That woman becomes a "pativrata". Then afterwards she never remembers that Brahmin, and there is no rule to remember him in the scriptures either.

    Similarily the Guru ties our bonds with Lord and thus the Guru's job is done. Purport is that Guru's duty is to bring the man face to face with God. Bringing the man face to face (closer) to himself, tying the bonds with himself is not a Guru's work.

    Same way, our duty too is to tie our bonds with God, not with guru. Just like there is a mother, father, brother, wife, son, cousin etc in life, similarily if we tie ourselves in one more bondange of a Guru then what is the use of it? There were already so many bindings earlier, now one more came!

    Our bonding with Lord is eternal and natural, (not man-made), because we are an eternal part of that Lord - "ममैवांशो जीवलोके जीवभूतः सनातनः" (gita 15/7), "ईस्वर अंस जीव अबिनासी" (maanas, uttar - 117/1).

    Guru reminds us of that forgotten relation, he does not form any new relation of ours with God.

    I frequently ask that who is first - son or father? Often the answer I get is that father is first. But actually if we think about it, son comes first, then comes father. Reason is that unless the son comes, the father doesn't get that status of father. He is a man first, and when son is born, he becomes a father. Same way, only when the student gets "tattvagyaan" (enlightened), then his guide is called Guru. Unless the student gets gyaan, the guide doesnot become a guru.

    That is why it is said:

    गुकारश्चान्ध्कारो हि रुकारस्तेज उच्यते
    अज्ञानग्रासकं ब्रह्म गुरुरेव न संशयः (guru gita)

    ie, "gu" is the name for darkness, and "ru" is the name for light, therefore he who removes the darkness of ignorance, he is called a Guru.

    There is a famous "doha" (verse) on the subject of Guru -
    'guru govind dou khade, kinke laagu paay
    balihaari gurudev ki, govind diyo bataay'

    He showed us Govind (lord), he brought the Lord infront of us, then only he (guru) is worshiped.
    Did not show us the Lord and yet he became our Guru - this is merely fraud!
    Simply by becoming a guru the guru-ness is not proved. That is why a lone standing guru has no glory. Only that guru has glory with whom govind (lord) is also standing, ie, who makes us attain the Lord.

    Only he is a real Guru who has the desire to benefit the student, and real student is he who has faith and love for the Guru -
    को व गुरुर्यो हि हितोपदेष्टा
    शिष्यस्तु को यो गुरुभक्त एव (prashnottari 7)

    If the guru is knowledgeable and the student sincerely follows his commands, then there is no doubt that the student will benefit.

    पारस केरा गुण किसा, पलटा नहीं लोहा
    कै तो निज पारस नहीं, कै बीच रहा बिछोहा

    If the iron is not turned into gold by the touch of 'paaras', then either that paaras is not a real one, or that iron is not real iron, or there is some obstacle in between. Similarily if student does not get enlightened, then either guru is not enlightened, or student is not sincere, or there is some obstacle (कपट भाव or deception) in between.

    He is a real guru, who worries only about the student's welfare. Anyone who does not worry about our welfare, how can he be our Guru? One who desires our welfare truly from his heart, he alone is our real guru, whether we consider him our Guru or not, whether he becomes our Guru or not.

    He does not desire as "I become a Guru", or "Others accept me as Guru, and become my students". Those who have desire for money, they are slaves of money. Similarly those who have desire for followers/students, they are slaves of followers. One who desires to become a guru, he cannot benefit others. One who desires for money from followers, he is not a Guru, instead he is a grand-follower. Reason is that if the follower has money, then that person's follower is money, and then because the Guru is a follower of money, therefore he becomes a follower of another follower(Money) and therefore is a grand-follower.

    Think- One who desires anything from you, can he become your Guru? Cannot be. Who wants any kind of thing from you, be it money, praise-respect etc, he is your follower, not your Guru. A true saint does not need the world, instead the world needs him. One who does not need anything in any way, he is a real Guru.

    कबीर जोगी जगत गुरु, तजै जगत की आस
    जो जग की आसा करै तो जगत गुरु वह दास

    ie, Kabir ji says that a yogi is the guru of whole world, he expects nothing from the world. If someone expects anything from the world, then the world is his Guru and he is the follower.

    Those who are true saints, they have no interest in becoming a Guru, instead they are interested in benefiting the world. They are deeply and truly interested in the benefit (kalyaan) of the world. I too have searched for good saints, and I have found them also. But they never said that if you become my follower then you will benefit. Those who are interested in becoming a Guru, they alone preach these type of things that its imperative to have a Guru, without Guru there is no liberation etc etc.
    It is not a rule that only a contemporary (living in present time) man can be a guru. Shri Shukdevji (Vedvyas's son who recited the Bhaagvatam to king Parikshit) lived 1000s of years back, but he gave deeksha to charandasji!

    A Guru himself takes initiative to give deeksha if the follower is a true seeker. Reason is that if the follower is true, then he does not need to go searching for a guru, instead Guru comes automatically to him. A true aspirant finds a true saint -
    जेहि कें जेहि पर सत्य सनेहू, सो तेहि मिलइ न कछु संदेहू (maanas, baalkand, 259/3)

    People search for Guru, but a real Guru searches for student. He has immense kindness and mercy in his heart. Mother has the highest status in the world. Mother is the first guru. Child gets birth from mother, feeds on her milk, plays in her lap, is brought up by her, and the child cannot be born without mother, cannot stay without her and cannot be brought up also without her. Mother stayed for years without the child, she did not feel any problem without the child. Despite that, it is her nature that she will stay hungry herself but wont let the child stay hungry. She herself faces problems and yet cares for the child. Similar are true gurus. Whoever they accept as their student, they liberate them. They have the capacity to liberate the student. I have witnessed such things.

    There was a saint. He never accepted others as student, instead considered them as friend only. One of his friends caught a terrible disease and got scared. He did not heal by medicines. The saint asked him - "you give your disease to me". The man said - " how can i give my disease to you?" The saint said again - "Now when I ask you then don't deny, don't put obstacle, you give your half disease to me". The friend accepted it and then the saint took over half of his illness upon himself. Then that friend got completely healed without any medicine. Those who are this capable can become gurus.
    But despite being so capable, he never accepted anyone as his disciple his entire life.

    Upon making a guru, his glory is said as to be such that he is greater than Govind also. The result of this is that the disciple starts worshiping the Guru instead of the Lord. This is an extremely wrong thing, it can take one to hell! This is the way of a Good saint. His disciples started treating him as God so he stopped accepting disciples and did not make any disciple for entire life. Reason is that disciples do not hold God, instead hold the Guru. By listening to the Guru's words, if a man gets immersed in God then its fine, but if he gets immersed in the Guru itself, then its a huge loss. Those who immerse the disciples in themselves are not Gurus, they are frauds like Kaalnemi. Guru is he who immerses the disciple in God. Guru, mother, father, brother, master etc there is none who cares for our benefit as much as the Lord -
  2. Speechless world

    Speechless world New Member

    उमा राम सम हित जग माहीं, गुरु पितु मातु बन्धु प्रभु नाहीं. (maanas, kishkindha, 12/1)

    Getting oneself worshiped instead of the Lord is a work of frauds. One who has desires of having disciples, getting money, building a home (aashram etc), getting praise-respect, becoming famous, he can not even do good (kalyaan) for himself, let alone doing good of others -

    शिष शाखा सुत वितको तरसे, परम तत्त्वको कैसे परसे?

    ie, who desires disciples, branches (lineage), son, money, how can he touch the param tattva (Lord)

    Through him people suffer in the same way as King Prataapbhanu suffered through fraud sage (see: maanas, balkand 153-175) (ie, due to following the fraud sage, the king got cursed by brahmins and was born as Raavan).

    Benefits are obtained by their company, who desire to benefit all. They do not have any other desire except benefiting others. He who himself is devoid of desires, he alone can make others devoid of desires. Those who have desires can only cheat others, not benefit them.

    It is the law that one who weakens others, he is weak himself, and one who empowers others, he is capable himself.
    Who makes others his disciple, he is not capable. One who is a Guru, he makes others also Guru only (ie, turns them into a Guru). God is the greatest of all, that is why he never makes anyone small. Whoever surrenders himself unto God's lotus-feet, he becomes great in the world. God makes everyone his friend, makes them like Him, he never makes others His disciple. Like Nishaadraj was a sidhha devotee, Vibhishan was a striver and Sugreev was a Bhogi, but Lord Ram made friends with all three of them. Arjun considered himself as Lord's disciple - 'शिष्यस्तेहं शाधि मां त्वां प्रपन्नं'(Gita 2/7), but Lord considered Himself as Arjun's friend only, not Guru - 'भक्तोसि मे सखा चेति' (Gita 4/3), 'इष्टोसि' (Gita 18/64).

    Vedas also declare the jeeva to be Lord's friend - "द्वा सुपर्णा सयुजा सखाया समानं वृक्षं परिशस्वजाते" (mundak 3/1/1, shvetashvatar 4/6)
    "Two birds - Jeeva and Paramatma - always staying together and having mutual friendship - stay on the same tree of the physical body."
    "सुपर्णावेतौ सदृशौ सखायौ यदृच्छयैतौ कृतनीडौ च वृक्षे (shrimadbhagvat 11/11/6)

    He who is himself great, he makes others also great. He who makes others smaller, he himself is small. He who is really great, he does not feel shy even in becoming small.
    In the group of Kshatriyas, in such a huge army, the Lord became a mere charioteer. When Arjun said to take his chariot in between the two armies, then Lord followed his instruction like a follower. Similarly when the Pandavas performed Yajna, Shri Krishna was worshiped first of all. But in that Yajna He only performed the task of picking up the dirty plates in which Brahmins had eaten.
    Lord does not feel ashamed of performing low tasks. Who is himself low, he alone feels ashamed and scared that others might think him to be low and might insult him.


    In reality, no one can completely describe a Guru's glory.
    Guru's glory is greater than even God's. That is why it has been described several times in scriptures. But that glory is of truthfulness, not hypocrisy.

    Nowadays there is a lot of hypocrisy, and is increasing day by day. Who is good and who is bad - this cannot be decided quickly. It is easier to remove an evil that comes in the form of evil only. But it is very difficult to remove an evil that comes in the form of goodness. When Sitaji faced Raavan, King Pratapbhanu faced fraud sage, and Hanumanji faced Kaalnemi, then they could not recognize them. They got trapped by them because those evils had put on appearance of saints.

    Nowadays also, the kind of faith that seen in the disciple for his guru, the guru is not actually worth it. That is why Shri Jaydayalji Goyandka used to say that nowadays we don't have faith in present day Gurus, instead we have faith in their disciples. Reason is that the faith that the disciples have for their Guru, that is worth respect.

    Despite being true, the Glory of Guru as mentioned in scriptures is not worth publicizing in present times. Reason is that nowadays hypocrites are using this glory to their own selfish interests. The Kaliyug too is a factor of this, because Kaliyug is a friend of Adharma - 'कलिनाधर्ममित्रेण' (padmapuran, uttar 193/31).
    Actually Guru's glory is not for publicizing, but for imbibing.
    If a guru himself talks about Guru's glory, publicizes books on Guru's glory, then it showes that he desires to become a Guru. One who desires to become a Guru, he cannot benefit others.
    That is why I do not deny a Guru, instead deny hypocrisy. No one can deny a Guru.

    The Guru's glory actually is from the point of view of the disciple, not from the point of view of the Guru
    . One is Guru's point of view, one is disciple's point of view, and one is the third person's point of view.

    Guru's point of view is that I have not done anything, instead I have just turned the disciples sight towards the natural and real entity. Purport is that I have made him realize his own self, I have not given him anything from myself.

    Disciple's point of view is that Guru has given me everything. Whatever happened, it happened only through Guru's grace.

    Third person's point of view is that the disciple realized the truth through his own faith.

    Real glory belongs to that Guru, who made you attain God. One who only talks, but does not make you attain God, he is not a Guru. Such a guru has only fake glory and it is only for cheating others.


    Guru's grace or Saint's grace has special importance.

    By God's grace we get the human body, and by Guru's grace we get God. People think that when we will make a guru, then he will bestow his grace on us. But this is not so important. Everyone raises their own kids. A dog also raises her own kids. But a Saint's grace is extraordinary! Others become their disciple or not, love him or hate him - saints don't see all that.
    When a saint's heart melts upon seeing someone helpless-pained, then consider the work done.
    One is grace and one is mercy. Mercy is soft but grace has some ruler-ship in it. Mercy does not have ruler-ship, only the heart melts. The disciple's work is done simply by the melting of Guru's heart.
    Jagaai-Madhaai was a notorious sinner and hated sadhus, but Chaitanya Mahaprabhu had mercy on him too and liberated him.

    Saints bestow their grace on everyone, but only a person seeking God receives that grace; like only a thirsty man takes water. Actually greater the desire to liberate oneself, greater the curiosity about truth, greater is the reception of Guru's grace. Guru's or saint's grace is bestowed automatically on a true seeker. Once this grace is bestowed, then there is nothing more left. But such Gurus are very rare.

    Paaras can turn iron into gold, but that gold does not have the power to turn another iron into gold. But if one finds a real Guru, then by his grace the disciple too becomes a guru, becomes a saint -

    पारस में अरु संत में, बहुत अंतरौ जान
    वह लोहा कंचन करे, वह करै आपु समान
    (ie. there is a lot of difference in paaras and saint. One turns iron into gold, one makes others same as himself)

    This is the wonder of Guru's grace!

    This grace can be bestowed in 4 ways - remembrance, sight, words, touch.

    Just like a tortoise lays its eggs in sand, and then itself staying in water, it keeps remembering the eggs, and by her remembering the eggs get ready to hatch, similarly just by the Guru remembering his disciple, the disciple gets knowledge - this is "smaran diksha" (diksha by remembrance).

    Just like the fish frequently keeps looking at its eggs and just by her sight the eggs get ready to hatch, similarly just by the Guru's gracious sight the disciple gets knowledge - this is "drishti diksha" (diksha by sight).

    Just like the Osprey (Sea hawk) bird lays its eggs on land and flies in the sky making a sound, and by that sound the eggs get ready to hatch, similarly the guru enlightens the disciple through his words - this is "shabd diksha" (diksha by words).

    Just like the peahen sits on her eggs and by her touch the eggs get ready to hatch, similarly the disciple can get knowledge by the Guru's touch - this is "sparsh diksha" (diksha by touch).

    By Lord's grace one gets human body, through which one can go to heaven or hell or even get liberated. But by Guru's grace one does not get heaven or hell, one only gets liberation. Some think that Guru's grace will be bestowed only when we make a guru- but its NOT like that. One cannot benefit from a fake guru. Those who are real saints, they will bestow grace only after accepting one as disciple - Its NOT like that. They naturally bestow grace on their own. Sun will provide light only when one makes him the Eesht (worshiped) god - Its not like that. Sun itself, by its own nature, provides light, anyone can use that light. Similarly Guru's grace, Saint's grace is bestowed on its own, naturally. Whoever confronts them, he takes the benefit. Who does not confront, he does not benefit. For eg: when it rains, if you keep a vessel in the rain, it will fill up, but if you keep it upside down, it will not fill up and remain dry. The kind of vessel one is while accepting a saint's grace, same is the benefit he receives.
  3. Speechless world

    Speechless world New Member

    "सतगुरु भूठा इन्द्र सम, कमी न राखी कोय
    वैसा ही फल नीपजै, जैसी भूमिका होय."

    ie, satguru is like lord Indra (God of rains), there is no deficit in his grace (rain water). But the kind of fruits born depends upon the kind of seeds sown.

    Rain falls equally on all, but the fruit is born according to the kind of seed sown. Similarly the grace of Lord and Saints is bestowed upon all equally. Anyone can benefit in the way he wants.


    Just by making a Guru you will not benefit, instead you will benefit by following his command; because words are Guru, not the physical body -

    जो तू चेला देह को, देह खेह की खान
    जो तू चेला सबद को, सबद ब्रह्म कर मान

    Guru is not the physical body and the physical body is not the guru - 'न मर्त्यबुद्धयासूयेत' (Shrimad Bhaagvat 11/17/27) That is why Guru never dies. If the Guru dies then how will the disciple be liberated? The physical body has been said to be lowly (adham) -

    'छिति जल पावक गगन समीरा, पंच रचित अति अधम सरीरा' (maanas, kishkindha, 11/2)

    ie, made of the five elements - earth, water, fire, space, wind, this body is too lowly.

    If someone has a body of flesh and bones as Guru, then he is lowly, he is kaalnemi (fraud). That is why seeing the Guru as a physical body and seeing a physical body as Guru is an offense. This thing is especially seen in Saint Eknathji's character.

    According to the scriptures, first one visits holy places (teerthas), then does worship and then gets enlightened. But this sequence is seen in the opposite way in Saint Eknathji's life. First he got enlightened, then he did worship, and then his Guru allowed him to go for teerth-yatra. When he was on his journey to holy places, then a Brahmin from his village Paithan reached his Guruji in Devgadh and said - "Lord! your disciple Eknath's grandparents are very old and they keep crying remembering Eknath." Guruji was surprised upon hearing this that Eknath stayed with me for so many years but he never mentioned his grandparents! Guruji wrote a letter and gave it to that Brahmin saying that when Eknath, during the course of his holy-journey, will reach Paithan, then give him this letter from me. I had told him, so he will surely come to Paithan. The Brahmin went away with the letter. When Eknathji, in the course of his journey, reached Paithan, he did not go to meet his grandparents, instead he stayed outside the village.

    When that Brahmin saw Eknathji, he recognized him. He held Eknath's grandfather's hand and brought him to Eknathji. Coincidentally they found Ekanthji on the way itself. Grandfather hugged him lovingly and taking out Guruji's letter he said - "this is your Guruji's letter". Eknath ji was delighted upon hearing this. He spread a cloth and kept the letter on it, then circumambulated around it, did "dandavat" pranaam and then read it. The letter said - "Eknath, you stay there".

    Eknathji sat there itself. Then for the entire lifetime he did not go anywhere. There only a house was built, Satsang started. Grandparents came to live with him. After that He did not even go to meet his Guruji. Think, Guru is the body or the words? When Guruji died, Eknathji said - "If Guru dies and disciple cries, then what Gyaan (knowledge) did both get?" Purport is that Guru never dies and disciple never cries.

    The kind of Guru-bhakti that is seen in Eknathji's character, it is not seen in characters of other saints. In the commentary that he has written in Marathi on the 11th Canto of Shrimad Bhaagvatam, there at the beginning of every chapter he has glorified the Guru in details. Such a prime guru-bhakt as Eknathji too gave more importance to the Guru's words than to the Guru himself.

    There are five ways to take benefit from God - Chanting names, Meditating, Serving, following command, and company.
    But there are only 3 ways of taking benefit from Saints - Service, following command and Company. That is why one should follow the Guru's commands, his principles instead of chanting his names or meditating upon him. Real worship and service to Guru lies only in leading one's life according to the Guru's principles. The reason for this is that Principles are dear to Saints more than even their bodies. They can even give up their life to protect and uphold the Principles, but they never quit the principles.

    Guru is not a body, it is a substance. Therefore Real Gurus never get themselves worshiped, instead the only get God worshiped. True saints never even make others follow their commands, instead they only say to follow the commands of scriptures like Gita, Ramayan etc.

    Those gurus who give their own photos, make others wear it on the neck, make others worship the photo or meditate upon it, they are cheats. One is the Lord's Pure (chinmay) form, and one is the impure material body of bones and flesh! Where Lord should be worshiped, there worshiping a statue of flesh and blood is a huge sin.

    Just like one who goes against the King, who is the King's enemy is an offender of the King, similarly one who gets himself worshiped is an offender of God. Someone asked the founder, manager and caretaker of Gitapress, Shri Jaydayalji Goyandka - "We want to take your picture". Goyandka ji said - "first bring your sandal and tie it on my head, then take my photo! I consider getting myself worshipped same as getting beaten by shoes."

    Once Goyandka ji asked a saint - "You give your photos in books, publicize your name and photographs etc, this benefits you or your disciples or the world??? Who benefits from it??"
    The saint could not give a reply to this question.


    Guru's glory has been said to be greater than even Govind's. But this glory is of that guru who can do benefit (uddhaar or kalyaan) to the disciple.

    'गुरुर्न स स्यात्स्वजनो न स स्यात
    पिता न स स्याज्जननी न सा स्यात
    दैवं न तत्स्यान्न पतिश्च स स्या -
    न्न मोचयेद्यः समुपेतमृत्युं" ... (Shrimad Bhagvat 5/5/18)

    ie: One who does not deliver from death that has come near, that Guru is not a guru, relative is not a relative, father is not a father, mother is not a mother, Isht-dev (worshiped deity) is not isht-dev, and husband is not husband.

    That is why saints have said - 'चौथे पद चीन्हे बिना शिष्य करो मत कोय'.

    Purport is that as long as you do not get the power to liberate your disciple, you should not become a Guru. Reason is that if you become a Guru and you cannot liberate, then its a great wrong -

    'हरइ सिष्य धन सोक न हरइ, सो गुर घोर नरक महुँ परइ' (maanas, uttar - 99/4)

    ie, one who takes away the disciple's money, but does not take away his suffering, such a guru falls into terrible hell.

    He falls into terrible hell because the disciple could have gone elsewhere to benefit himself, but the guru stopped him in one place by making him his own disciple. The disciple had luckily got the human body to do his own good (kalyaan), but the (fake) guru put a huge obstacle in it!

    It is like a dog entered a house, and the house owner closed the door. There was nothing to eat in the house. Now that dog did not get anything to eat in that house, and it cannot go to another place. This is the condition of present day disciples.
    Guruji himself cannot benefit the disciple and does not let him go elsewhere either. If he goes elsewhere, the Guruji scares him that being my disciple you go elsewhere!
  4. Speechless world

    Speechless world New Member

    Respected Shri Karpatriji used to say- "A guru who makes disciple, but cannot liberate him, that guru becomes a dog in his next birth and the disciples become ticks and suck his blood".

    'मंत्रीदोषश्च राजानं जायादोषः पतिं यथा
    तथा प्राप्नोत्यसंदेहं शिष्यपापं गुरुं प्रिये' (kulaarnavatantra)

    ie: 'just like a minister's wrong-doing goes to (applies to) the king, wife's wrong-doing goes to the husband, same way surely the disciple's sin goes to the Guru'

    'दापयेत स्वकृतं दोषं पत्नी पापं स्वभर्तरि
    तथा शिष्यार्जितं पापं गुरूमाप्नोति निश्चितं' (Gandharvatantra)

    ie: 'Like wife's dosh (wrong-doing) and sins are received by her husband, same way sins accumulated by the disciple are definitely received by his Guru.'

    There is a true story of a Saint's previous birth. In his previous birth, he was a King's minister. He attained Vairagya (detachment) so he left everything and became a detached saint. Many sadhus came and started staying with him. The King also got the thought that I make this minister saint only my Guru and sing bhajan. He went and became the saint's disciple. In future when the Guruji (minister) died, then in his place the king was made Mahant (leader).
    After becoming mahant, the king got engaged in Bhogas (enjoyments), because that was his old habit. As a result, after death, the king went to various hells. Guruji (minister) went to higher lokas. After suffering in hell, when the king took birth again, then with him the Guruji too had to take birth. Then guruji again made him (the king) spiritual, but did not make him his disciple, instead only made him a friend.
    Whole life he did not make anyone his disciple.

    This incident proves that if a Guru cannot liberate his disciple, then he has to again come into this world to liberate the disciple. Therefore one must make only Him as Guru, who can liberate the disciple.

    Gurus of these days, instead of getting God worshiped, get themselves worshiped from disciples. They do not make the disciple God's own, instead make the disciple their own. This is a huge offense.

    There is a difference in sin and offense. Sin can be destroyed by suffering the fruits (hell etc) of sin, but offense cannot be destroyed without pleasing the one who has been offended. That is why offense is more terrible than sin.

    A Jeeva (soul) wants to go towards God, by making him own disciple, he got stuck in the Guru. Now how will he go towards God? Guru became an obstacle-provider in the journey towards God! Guru is He, who confronts you with God, who develops your faith and belief in God; like- Hanumanji developed Vibhishan's faith in Ramji, not in himself -

    "सुनहु बिभीषण प्रभु कै रीती, करहिं सदा सेवक पर प्रीती
    कहहु कवन मैं परम कुलीना, कपि चंचल सबहीं बिधि हीना
    प्रात लेइ जो नाम हमारा, तेहि दिन ताहि न मिलै अहारा
    ....अस मैं अधम सखा सुनु मोहू पर रघुबीर....
    ....कीन्ही कृपा सुमिरि गुन भरे बिलोचन नीर.... " (Maanas, Sundarkand - 7)

    Shri Sharanaanandji Maharaj has written-
    "Those lecturers who prove their own personality instead of God and tie relationship of disciples with themselves instead of tying with God, they do a huge disaster." (Prabodhani)

    Instead of having faith-belief in a person, by having faith-belief in God there will be greater benefit, quicker benefit and especial benefit.
    That is why that Guru who makes the disciples believe the Guru himself, makes them serve himself, makes them chant His name, makes them meditate upon His own form, gets himself worshipped, gives his own eaten food, gets his own feet washed, such a guru takes towards downfall. One should beware of him.

    Due to being a fragment of God Himself, human has always had very close relationship with God. This relation is natural and on-its-own. It has not been made by someone. But the relationship made with God is artificial, it is made. By a "made" relationship benefit does not happen, instead bondage happens; because we are bound only by the 'made' relations of the world.

    Think, those people who have made Guru, have they all benefited? Did they get tattva-gyaan (knowledge)? Did they attain God? Did they get liberated? If someone has got, then its a thing of huge pleasure, but we do not believe it.

    On one hand are those people who made guru, on the other are those who did not make guru but do sat-sang (company of saints) - what difference do you see in those two? Think, which gives more benefit - making a guru or getting satsang (company of saints)?

    Guruji will liberate us - thus thinking one gets lax in spiritual practice. That is why the amount of Raag-Dvesh (love-hate) that is found in guru-makers, that much is not found in satsang-doers. If someone even gets good-company, then he does not fight or quarrel with others, but those who consider themselves disciples of some guru, they even sometimes beat up disciples of other gurus. No special improvement is seen in guru-makers. Only an illusion develops that we have made a Guru, nothing except this happens. That is why just by making a guru one can liberated - there is no such rule.

    Making and becoming a Guru is a very dangerous task, its no show. A man goes to a garments shop and says that I want so-n-so dress. If the shopkeeper takes the price of the dress, but does not give the dress, then is it right? If he could not give the dress, then why did he take the price? And if he took the price then why didn't he give the dress?
    Same way if one makes disciples, takes offerings and does not liberate, then is it right? "First become my disciple, then I will liberate" - This is cheating.

    Got yourself worshiped, took offerings, made disciple and did not liberate, then why did you become a Guru? If you become a Guru, then make the disciple attain God, and if you don't make him attain God, then you have absolutely no right to become a Guru.
    If you cannot benefit the disciple, then let him go elsewhere. What right do you have to stop him if you yourself cannot liberate him? You do not benefit him, and yet do not let him go elsewhere, then this way you have devastated the disciple! You have made his human-birth meaningless! Now how will he liberate himself?

    That is why, as far as possible, one should not form the Guru-disciple relationship.

    Without forming that relationship if you follow the Saint's advice, then you will benefit, and if you don't follow also, then there will be no loss either.

    Purport is that in NOT making the Guru-disciple relationship, there is only benefit, no loss. But if you form that relationship, then upon not following Guru's words there will be loss.

    Reason is that if the Guru is real, and if you ignore even a single word of him, if you don't obey his words, then it is an offense to the Guru, which even God cannot forgive.

    'शिवक्रोधाद गुरुस्त्राता गुरुक्रोधाच्छिवो न हि
    तस्मात्सर्वप्रयत्नेन गुरोराज्ञां न लंघयेत' ... (Gurugita)

    ie: "Guru can protect even from Lord Shankara's anger, but even Lord Shankar cannot protect from Guru's anger. Therefore in anyway, never disobey Guru's words."

    'राखइ गुर जो कोप बिधाता, गुर बिरोध नहिं कोऊ जग त्राता' (Maanas, Baalkand 166/3)

    ie.: "If god is angry, Guru can save you, but if Guru gets angry, then no one in the world can save you".
  5. Speechless world

    Speechless world New Member


    गुरुवो बहवः सन्ति शिष्यवित्तापहारकाः
    तमेकं दुर्लभं मन्ये शिष्य हृत्तापहारकं' (Gurugita)

    ie: "There are many gurus who can take away the disciple's money, but those gurus are rare who can take away the pain of the disciple's heart".

    Gita talks about benefiting humanity itself - "'सर्वभूतहिते रताः" (5/25; 12/4).

    True saints are solely interested in benefiting all living beings, not in drawing them towards themselves. They neither make anyone their disciple, nor do they make their own group, nor do they take anything from anyone, instead how can the others benefit- they keep their focus on this and not only for the disciples, but for the benefit of every living being, they thus pray to God -

    'सर्वे भवन्तु सुखिनः सर्वे सन्तु निरामयाः
    सर्वे भद्राणि पश्यन्तु मा कश्चिद् दुःखभाग्भवेत'

    This is because they have suffered themselves. Therefore they know how much pain is there in the world, and how much pleasure lies in breaking all ties with the world. That is why they want that other people too get delivered from the pains of the world and experience permanent happiness.

    True saints are not found in present times. True saints were very few in earlier times also, and have especially become fewer in present times.Nowadays becoming a Guru has become a business. They make disciples so that they can keep earning a living, they can do whatever they like, they (their body) can get praised and respected, their selfish motives can be satisfied. The same feeling is there in the disciples too.

    गुरु लोभी सिष लालची, दोनों खेले दाँव
    दोनों डूबा 'परसराम', बैठ पथरकी नाँव

    ie: Guru greedy, disciple greedy, both play Game. Both get drowned sitting in a boat of rock.

    This is the time of fake products. Brahmin also fake, kshatriya also fake, Vaishy also fake, shoodhra also fake, brahmchari also fake, grihastha fake, vanprastha fake, sadhu fake, infact even vegetables, flowers, spices, milk etc are also found fake. When all is fake, then Guru is also fake.

    "मिथ्यारंभ दंभ रत जोई, ता कहुं संत कहइ सब कोई
    निराचार जो श्रुति पथ त्यागी, कलिजुग सोई ग्यानी सो बिरागी" (Maanas, Uttarkand 98/2,4)

    ie: In kaliyug, whoever will showoff false piety, whoever will be immersed in hypocrisy, he will be called a 'Saint' by all, who ever will be devoid of righteous conducts, who will quit the path of Vedas, in kaliyug he will be called gyaani (knowledgeable) and vairaagi (detached).

    Merely by becoming a Sadhu one does not get liberated. I have been a Sadhu myself and seen. Therefore those who want their own benefit, they should not get entangled in any other human-being, they should not make anyone as their guru. In reality, benefit, liberation, knowledge, attainment of God are not dependent upon Guru. If without making a Guru one does not get knowledge, then whoever might have been the first Guru in creation, how would he have attained knowledge?

    If without making a human as guru also he got knowledge, then it proves that without making any human as guru also one can get knowledge by the grace of Jagadguru (guru of the world) Lord.

    But nowadays the tradition going on is that first become a disciple, receive guru-mantra, then I will give lecture. Making a guru in such a condition, the disciple suffers a lot. Faith doesn't develop, benefit can't be seen, inner illusion doesn't get removed, and he cannot go elsewhere leaving here.

    If anyone asks me, I will say that do satsang (company of saints) and take as much benefit as you can, but don't make anyone Guru. Wherever you get good teachings, keep taking them and where you don't get good teachings, just walk away from there. Don't get tied down by making a Guru.

    मधुलुब्धो यथा भ्रीन्गः पुष्पात पुष्पान्तर व्रजेत
    ज्ञानलुब्धस्तथा शिष्यो गुरोर्गुर्वंतरं व्रजेत ........ (Guru Gita)

    ie: "Like a honey-greedy honeybee goes from one flower to another, same way a knowledge-greedy disciple should go from one guru to another"

    Who knows what will be one's condition in the future after making a Guru! I have met many such people who according to their understanding made very good Gurus, but later lost faith in them. Therefore whoever wants his own benefit, he should not make relations with Anyone. One who makes relations with the world cannot benefit himself alone, then how will he benefit others?

    Nowadays its extremely difficult to find a real Guru. We cannot find anyone who has the exact right knowledge. Who himself doesn't have knowledge, what will he teach the disciple? Earlier too there were very few who had the exact right knowledge. When we read books of earlier existing saints also, we don't feel completely satisfied.

    Greatest saints are those who have no differences, ie, they don't favor a particular thinking like Dvait, Advait, Vishishtadvait etc. That is why the best thing for a striver is that he whole-heartedly gets into God. Instead of holding any person, he hold God. Person is not perfect, perfections lies in God. If we confront God with a true heart, then he will bestow Yoga, Knowledge, Devotion- everything upon us.

    "तेषां सततयुक्तानां भजतां प्रीतीपूर्वकं
    ददामि बुद्धियोगं तं येन मामुपयान्ति ते
    तेषामेवानुकम्पार्थमहमज्ञानजं तमः
    नाशयाम्यात्मभावस्थो ज्ञानदीपेन भास्वता" (Gita 10/ 10-11)

    ie: "To those devotees who are constantly immersed in me and lovingly sing my glories, I give that Yoga of wisdom, through which they attain me"

    "To bestow grace upon those devotees I, residing in their hearts, dispel their darkness born of ignorance by the illuminating lamp of knowledge."
  6. Speechless world

    Speechless world New Member


    Its an affecting thing that when the World-guru Lord gives the human body for attaining Him, then with it he also gives a guru in the form of Conscience. Lord doesn't do incomplete work. Just like officers get all facilities such as house, servants, cars etc., same way God also gives all the materials required for liberation along with the human body.

    He gives humans the guru (in the form) of Conscience, through which man can discern between Real and Unreal, Duty and non-Duty, right and wrong etc. There is no Guru greater than this conscience. He who respects his own conscience, he does not need an external guru for his liberation. He who does not respect his own conscience, he cannot benefit himself even after making any external Guru. That is why even after making an external guru one does not benefit.

    The more importance a man gives to his conscience, the more his conscience increases, and thus increasing constantly it turns into knowledge (gyaan). Respect for conscience does not come by making guru, but by doing sat-sang (company of saints). - 'बिनु सत्संग बिबेक न होई'(Maanas, balkand 3/4).

    Good saints do not accept disciples, yet through there mere company one can get liberated. Their conducts set examples, from their words scriptures are made. Therefore wherever one gets good sat-sang, beneficial teachings, there one should do sat-sang, but as far as possible, one should not make the relationship of guru-disciple.

    There was an uncle of the King of Mewar - Maharaj Chatursinghji. He used to listen to sat-sang, and when he would get any good teaching from it, he would walk away from there with the resolve that now I have to practice it. He used to firmly resolve that from now onwards this teaching will not go from my life. This way he became a good saint, wrote good books, and was called Valmiki of Mewari language. Same way you too start adopting whatever good teachings you get, then you will also become a saint.


    If the Guruji is a leader of some sect, he has millions and billions of rupees, then in obtaining money from him, their is primacy of the Guru. When guru will accept the disciple, then only disciple will get money. Without the guru's wish the disciple will not be able to take the money.

    This way in obtaining money the Guru is primary, but in obtaining welfare and knowledge their is primacy of the disciple. If the disciple is not hungry for his own welfare then the guru cannot benefit him. But if the disciple is hungry for his own welfare, then without the guru's acceptance also he will be able to benefit himself.

    When Swami Ramanandji Maharaj denied accepting Kabir as his disciple, then one day Kabir laid himself down on the steps of Panchganga ghat. When Ramanandji maharaj passed that place while going to take bath, he unknowingly stepped on Kabir and he exclaimed 'Ram-Ram'. Kabir accepted "Ram"-name itself as Guru-mantra and started his spiritual practice. As a result Kabir became a chakra-varti (extremely successful) saint amongst all saints.

    When Dronacharya did not accept Eklavya as disciple, then Eklavya made an idol of Dronacharya and, accepting that idol as Guru, started practicing the art of archery. As a result he became better than even Arjuna.

    Therefore its not true that only by making a Guru can one benefit. If it were true, then whoever have made gurus, have they all benefited? Have they all attained God?

    Through the lectures, guidance of whom we can benefit, he only is our guru in reality, whether we consider him our guru or not, whether he considers us as disciple or not, and whether he knows about us or not.

    Dattatreyaji told about his 24 gurus, so did anyone came and told him that you are my disciple and I am your guru? One should make such a guru that the Guru doesn't even come to know that someone is my disciple.


    The Lord, whom we want to attain, is not limited to one place, its not in the captivity of anyone, if it is captivated, then of what good is it for us? God is constantly available to mankind itself. Those great souls who know that God, they neither become guru, nor take any fees, instead tell the truth about everyone else.

    Those who don't become guru, the way in which they can explain about God, that way others, who become guru, cannot explain.

    Dealers are not Guru. Those who say that first become my disciple, then I will show you the way to attain God, they are selling God. This is a principle that the price for which an item is sold, that item is actually of a lesser cost than that price. For ex: if a watch is sold for Rs.100, then the shopkeeper who sold it had paid lesser than Rs.100 for buying it. If something can be attained only by making a guru, then it will definitely be of a lesser price (value) than the guru, then how will God be attained by that? God is priceless. Priceless things are available without any price, and those things which are obtained only after a price, they are weaker (of lesser value) than the price.

    That is why if someone says that become my disciple then I will tell you something, then you should respectfully get away from there! You should understand that this is some Kaalnemi!

    Hanumanji had said to the Kaalnemi demon who had come in form of fraud guru -

    "सर मज्जन करी आतुर आवहु, दिच्छा देऊँ ज्ञान जेहिं पावहु" (maanas, lankakand 57/4)

    ie: When kaalnemi's fraud was uncovered, Hanumanji said to him - "first take guru-dakshina, then later give me guru-mantra" and tying him in his tail, threw him on the ground!
    Own _Dedication_ is _the _cause _of _Attaining__Welfare

    Lord has clearly stated in Gita -

    "उध्दरेदात्मनात्मानं नात्मानमवसादयेत
    आत्मैव ह्यात्मनो बन्धुरात्मैव रिपुरात्मनः" (Gita 6/5)

    ie: "One should lift oneself by one's own efforts and should not degrade oneself; for on'e own self is one's friend, and one's own self is one's enemy"

    Purport is that in one's upliftment or decline, the person himself is responsible, no one else. When Lord has given this human body, then he has also given the complete materials required for one's welfare. Therefore in one's own welfare no one else is required.

    Guru, Saint and Lord uplift only then when human being himself has faith in them, he accepts them, he confronts them, he follows their instructions.If human being does not accept them, then how will they benefit him?? They cannot. If one himself doesn't become disciple then what will the guru do? For eg: other person can give you food, but for eating you need your own hunger. Without own hunger what use is the good food given by others? Same way without own dedication, what use are the lectures of Guru, saints or great souls?

    There is no lack of guru, saint and God. There have been many great saints, acharyas, gurus, incarnations of Lord, but we have not yet benefited. This proves that we ourselves have not yet accepted them. Therefore we alone are the cause of our upliftment or decline. Whoever considers others to be the cause in his upliftment or decline, he can never be uplifted.

    In reality, human himself is his own Guru - "आत्मनो गुरुरात्मैव पुरुषस्य विशेषतः" (Shrimad Bhaagvatam 11/7/20)

    Therefore give lectures to your own self. Instead of seeing fault in others, see fault in yourself and try to remove it. Become your own Guru, your own leader and your own rules.

    Purport is that in reality benefit doesn't come either from the Guru or from the Lord, but from one's own true dedication. Without own dedication, even Lord cannot help you.

    If Lord could have helped you without your own dedication, then why would have we been deprived of welfare till date? Neither is their lack of guru, nor of saints, nor of Lord. There is only lack of our dedication.
  7. Speechless world

    Speechless world New Member

    Attaining welfare is not dependent upon guru, or saints or God. It is dependent upon self. When without our dedication the all-powerful Lord cannot help us, then what capacity does a human have that he will help us? If we don't have dedication, then even after making millions and billions of gurus we won't benefit.

    If there will be true dedication in our heart, then guru too will be found, saints will be found, Lord will be found, good books will be found and knowledge too will be found. How it will be found, in what way it will be found - this God knows!

    When fruit ripens, the parrot itself comes and eats it. Same way if we become true disciples then true guru will himself come to us. The need that disciple has for guru, the guru has a greater need than that for disciple. If our dedication will be true, then even if we find a fraud guru, God will liberate us from him, no one will be able to stop us. One who has dedication for his welfare, he doesn't get stuck anywhere - this is a rule. When a true seeker finds truly good company (satsang), he immediately holds onto it.

    If you want your welfare, then who can obstruct it? And if you do not want your welfare then who can do your welfare? No matter how good the guru is, saint is, but without your desire no one can benefit you. If you get ready for your welfare, then not only saints and great souls, but even thieves and robbers will help you, the wicked will also serve you, lions, snakes etc too will serve you! Not only this, the world itself will become your servant. I have seen this several times that if a truly dedicated seeker of God faces sorrows also, then those sorrows also become helpers in his upliftment!

    Others work with the intention of hurting him only, but he in turn benefits from it! Not only this, those who do not believe in God, even if they develop a dedication for their welfare, then even they are benefited.

    A wealthy man may keep servants for doing work, brahmins for doing puja, but for eating food and taking medicine no one can keep servants or brahmins. Upon being hungry, food must be eaten on one's own, upon being sick medicine has to be taken on one's own. When hunger also dies upon eating food oneself, disease also dies upon taking medicine oneself, then how will welfare happen without own dedication? If You sincerely get into God, then guru, saint, God- all are ready to help you, but welfare has to be done by oneself only. That is why "Guru will do our welfare" - this is total cheating!

    No matter how merciful the mother is, but if you are not hungry then how will she feed you? Same way if you have no zeal for your own welfare then what will God, despite being supreme merciful, do?

    At the time of cheer-haran (pulling off saaree) when Draupadi called God, then HE appeared in the form of Cloth, but when Yuddhishthira, while loosing in gamble, did NOT even call God, then how should HE come? Yuddhishthira suffered pains in forest for 13 years. Mother Kunti asked Lord Shri Krishna - "Oh Kanhaiya! Don't you feel sorry for Pandavas?" Lord said - "What can I do? Yuddhishthira gambled away kingdom, wealth, etc everything, but did not call me at all!"

    GOD _IS _Everyone's _GURU
    God is the Guru of the entire world -

    "कृष्णं वन्दे जगदगुरुं
    जगदगुरुं च शाश्वतं" (Maanas, Aranyakand 4/9)

    Not only is he Guru, but he is even the Supreme Guru of Gurus -

    'स ईशः परमो गुरोर्गुरु' (Shrimad Bhaagvatam 8/24/48)

    'त्वमस्य पूज्यश्च गुरुर्गुरियां' (Gita 11/43)

    King Satyavrata says to Lord -

    "like a blind would make another blind his guide, same way ignorant jeevas make ignorants only their guru. You are self-effulgent like the Sun and you inspire all the senses. We seekers of self-knowledge accept you alone as Guru' (Shrimad Bhaagvatam 8/24/50)

    Prahlaad ji says - "Lord Vishnu residing in the heart himself is the lecturer of the entire world. Oh Sir! Other than that Lord, who else can teach anything to anyone else? Cannot teach" (Vishnupuran 1/17/20)

    God is the world-guru and we are within the world. That is why in reality we are not devoid of guru. We are the disciples of the real Great Guru. There is a lot of danger from the gurus of Kaliyug, but there is not danger from the World-guru Lord.
    There is pure benefit, there is no loss at all. That is why consider Lord as your guru and read his Gita, mould your life according to it, then surely we will benefit. You can consider anyone as your guru, be it Krishna, Ram, Shiva, Hanuman, Ganesh, Sun etc.

    Gajendra had said - "Whoever Lord protects the refugee who comes to his refuge being scared from the fast approaching and immensely powerful Snake of Kaal (Death), and fearing WHOM even death is running, I take refuge of HIM". (Shrimad Bhaagvat 8/2/33)

    The purport of Gajendra's saying is that I do not know how God is, what is His name etc, but who ever is God, I take His refuge. Same way if we too take refuge or Lord then he will send a Guru or He will himself become a guru.

    We are a fragment of God - 'ममैवंशो जीवलोके' (Gita 15/7); therefore God himself is our guru, mother, father and everything else. Actually we do not have to make relation with Guru, we have to make relation with God. Only he is a true guru who makes our relation with God. We don't need to take advice from anyone in making relation with God. Jeeva itself has independent relation with God. There is no need of any agent (mediator) in it. If first we will make guru then he will make our relation with God, then this way we get one step farther away from God. If we make a direct relation with God beforehand itself, then there is no need for an agent at all. Liberation will come forcibly to us even without our want -

    "अति दुर्लभ कैवल्य परम पद, संत पुराण निगम आगम बद
    राम भजत सोई मुकुति गोसाईं, अनइच्छित आवई बरीआईं" (maanas, uttarkand 119/2)

    ie: "The supreme Kaivalya post (moksha) is extremely difficult to attain, which is praised by saints, puranas, and vedas. But by worshiping Lord Ram, that very liberation comes forcefully even without desiring"

    That is why Lord says in Gita -

    'मन्मना भव मद्भक्तो मद्याजी मां नमस्कुरु ' (Gita 9/34; 18/65)

    ie: "You become my devotee, fix your mind in me, worship me, and bow to me".

    'सर्व धर्मान्परित्यज्य मामेकं शरणं व्रज' (Gita 18/66)

    ie: "Resolving all your duties to me, you take refuge in me"

    The Lord has become a guru and is telling you to go into his refuge.
  8. Speechless world

    Speechless world New Member

    GENEROSITY_ of_ the_ world-Guru_ GOD

    God has infinite number of qualities, which no one can count. The instances of God's qualities mentioned in all the scriptures till date, mentioned by the saints till date, all that compiled together also is not complete. The prime-devotee of God Goswami (Tulsidasji) Maharaj also says - 'रामु न सकहिं नाम गुण गाई' (maanas, balkand 26/4). Even saints have said that even Lord himself does not know his power!

    Such possessor of infinite qualities, Lord has atleast three major qualities - Omniscience (knows all), Omnipotence (all powerfull), and All-loving. Purport is that no one is as omniscient as God, as Omnipotent as God and as supreme-loving as God. Despite the existence of such a God you are suffering, you are not getting liberated, then will the guru liberate you?? Is the guru more omniscient, omnipotent and all-loving than even God? Nothing will happen except pure cheating! Unless you have the desire for your welfare, even God cannot help you, then how will the Guru help?

    The speciality that is visible to you in Saints and great souls, that too is not their own merit, instead it has come from God and has been assumed by you. For eg: in any sweet, the sweetness comes from Sugar, similarly wherever there is speciality, all of it always comes from God. God has also said in Gita -

    "Every such being as is glorious, brilliant and powerful, know that to be a part-manifestation of MY glory." (Gita 10/41)

    Even the demons who oppose God get their power only from God*, then will the worshipers of God not get power from Him? If you confront God then sins of billions of lives will be destroyed.**

    *Lord Hanuman says to Raavan -
    Through a fragment of Whose powers, you won the entire world, I am a messenger of HIM, whose loving wife you have kidnapped and brought here" (maanas, sundarkand 210

    **"When the Jeeva confronts Me (Ram), instantly his sins incurred over billions of lifetimes are destroyed" (Manas, sunderkand 44/1)

    Be face to face with God, you shall be freed from sins of millions of lives. but if you do not do so, there is no way out to be free from sins. The Almighty bestows strength on everyone whether he is His enemy, beloved or indifferent. God's creation, the earth accomodates all alike whether noble or evil, beleiver or non-believer, sinner or pious. His creations - such as food fulfills everybody's hunger, water satisfies everybody's thirst and air helps everyone to remain alive. God's grace is available in abundance for all beings even if some of them are most wicked and the vilest of sinners. We have to pay for electricity, water and living space but God has provided sun, moon, rivers and plenty of space just free of any charge. When his creations are so kind to human beings, you can imagine the infinite dimensions of his generosity for mankind.

    There is an interesting story, A person observed a day's fast on the occasion of Ekadashi (11th day of either half of lunar month). Next day he wanted to feed someone as per tradition, but due to heavy rains he could not find a suitable person. At last after a long search, he found an old monk. He invited the Monk to his house for a meal. He placed a plate full of food items before the monk who started eating it instantly. The person reminded the monk that he should have offered the food to God before eating himself. The monk abruptly said "What is God? You are a fool, you do not understand all this." On hearing this, that man removed the food plate and said "When God is nothing, who are you to eat the food? We offer the food to you for the sake of God only." That very moment a mystic voice was heard saying "This monk has grown old while rebuking Me, but even then I have been providing him food all along. When you are refusing one day's meal to him, how can you claim yourself to be My devotee? If I don't arrange food for him, how long would he survive?"

    After hearing the divine command, the man felt very much ashamed and begged for monk's pardon and thereafter gave him food with great respect.

    ऐसो को उदार जग माहीं
    बिनु सेवा जो द्रवै दीन पर राम सरिस कोऊ नाहीं (Vinay Patrika - Tulsidas -162)

    ie: "Who is so generous in this world. Without any service HIS heart melts for the destitute, there is no one like Ram".

    In spite of this divine presence of such a generous God, if we suffer and expect a Guru to give us happiness and salvation, it is a stupid and deceptive proposition. It is more than sufficient if we prepare ourselves to attain salvation.

    God is very compassionate. When He provides living to all of us, will He not help us to attain salvation? Therefore you should develop a sincere and strong desire for your salvation and pray to God "Oh! My Lord! Let me be free from the worldly bondage and let me realize the ultimate truth. I don't know about any real bliss, help me not to be involved with anything else but to attain the real bliss. Oh Lord! Guide me as to what I should do." God always responds to truthful prayers -

    "सच्चे ह्रदय से प्रार्थना, जब भक्त सच्चा गाय है
    तो भक्त वत्सल कान में, वह पहुँच झट ही जाय है."

    ie: When a 'true devotee' prays to God with a 'true heart', then the prayers instantly reaches the ears of God who has compassion for devotee".

    God, saints, and sages are more concerned about our salvation than we are. A mother is always worried about her children more than the children themselves are, but those children never realize it. Similarly God and his devotees remain engrossed in our welfare without any selfishness.

    "हेतु रहित जग जुग उपकारी, तुम्ह तुम्हार सेवक असुरारी" (maanas, uttarkand 47/3)

    ie: "Oh enemy of demons! You and your servants oblige the world without reason."

    The saints and sages are very eager to help and support those who sincerely move towards God. Saints' hearts are always overflowing with compassion for the welfare of others. Who doesn't want to feed a hungry child?

    If someone is very keen with all sincerity for his salvation, God definitely helps him. A guru can never be such a well-wisher of ours as God is -

    "उमा राम सम हित जग माहीं, गुरु पितु मातु बन्धु प्रभु नाहीं
    सुर नर मुनि सब कै यह रीती, स्वारथ लागि करहिं सब प्रीती" (maanas, kishkindha 12/1)

    ie: Lord Shiva tells mother Parvati - "Uma! There is not benefactor in this world like Lord Ram, be it guru, father, mother, brother or master. The demogids, humans, sages etc all have this nature that they will love (benefit) only for selfish reasons".
  9. Speechless world

    Speechless world New Member


    Question : How will salvation be attained without a Guru because it is mentioned in Ramcharitmanas that no one can cross the worldly ocean without a Guru?

    'गुर बिनु भव निधि तरइ न कोई' (maanas, uttar 93/3)
    It is also mentioned in the same Ramcharitmanas that -

    'गुर सिष बधिर अंध का लेखा, एक न सुनइ एक नहीं देखा
    हरइ सिष्य धन सोक न हरइं, सो गुर घोर नरक महुँ परइ' (maanas, uttar, 99/3-4)

    ie: "Relationship between Guru and disciple is that of blind and deaf, one does not hear, other does not see. (ie, guru has no sight of self-knowledge and disciple cannot hear or follow guru's command). A guru who takes away disciples money but does not take away his sufferings, such a guru falls into terrible hell."

    It means that salvation is not possible with the help of a fraud guru. Only having a guru is not sufficient. Salvation is only possible when you follow the path shown by a real saint and in that case he is your only guru. Saint Dattatreya has mentioned about his 24 gurus in Srimad Bhaagvat. It clearly establishes that a person can attain salvation from teachings of any noble soul. Therefore having a guru is not as important as following the noble teachings. When anybody's teachings help us to attain salvation, he becomes our Guru even without declaring so. On the contrary if we have a Guru but we do not follow his teachings, it amounts to be a sin and offence and it will not lead us to salvation.

    These days a large number of people are initiated as disciples collectively. In such cases neither the Guru nor the disciples feel concerned about their salvation. The Guru is not worthy to lead the disciples to salvation and the disciples now are not allowed to go somewhere else. Hence it creates a hindrance in the upliftment and salvation of the disciples.
  10. rahul malik

    rahul malik New Member

    Anyone who guides us to a path that leads to god can be called as guru. A guru takes us from darkness to light.
  11. iandkrsna

    iandkrsna New Member

    The guru is offered the same respect that we offer God. God is always God, guru is always guru. As a matter of etiquette, God is the worshipable God, and guru is the worshiper God.

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